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1/D-40
Feb 21, 2010
10:18 AM
Israel does it regularly. even recently they were blamed for a murder of a Palestinian in Dubai. But these tactics have not resolved the problem. India is already accused of doing this kind of things by Pakistan.
However some of the targets mentioned deserve this kind of treatment and it would be entirely moral and save lot more innocent lives. IF POSSIBLE
hegde
Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
2/D-54
Feb 21, 2010
12:24 PM
Even when the biggest killing of Hindus by Muslims took place in 1947,except in Punjab and pockets in Bengal and Bihar,there was no retaliatory killings right across the country,including Pune and Nagpur.Hindus are never feared by the Muslims and now by the Christians of North-East,Orissa etc.Goodness of Hindus is their biggest weakness.Muslims,i mean Pakistanis are a pragmatic people and they know too well that Hindus will never retaliate.
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
3/D-73
Feb 21, 2010
05:03 PM
There is a larger point being made by Vir Sanghvi, which we are willing to ignore.

26/11 has established a new thresh hold, and is the new template. For the moment let us grant Sundeep Dougal his point of view.

The question that begs an answer is what would be our response, to the next terror strike which could be considerably higher in intensity, location in terms of target, number of causalities and the prominence of the persons who are victims. Would we still follow this path or will it lead to an instant and a forceful reaction against our neighbour, that could actually be an open act of war with all it gore and destruction.

Incase the victims are common Indians! Yes we will get a lot of hot air from our politicians, no matching action. Unfortunately should the target we a high value establishment, and victims include imminent individuals from India then, there is every reason to believe that our reaction is not going to be just hot air.

Incase we want to prevent an all out war and a very large number of War widows and Orphans in our country. We need a doctrine of interdiction to be in place and actively employed.
Anil Kohli
Mumbai, India
4/D-89
Feb 21, 2010
07:54 PM
>>>At the risk of being called a wimp, .... fight it with our heads held high

No, I wouldn't say wimp, but maybe somebody who hasn't thought through why they say what they say. And maybe a little brainwashed by "Western military morality", and afraid to question the basis of it.

So there is this fetish in the US about torture. It is considered completely out of bounds to waterboard a terrorism suspect, but it's ok to use Hellfire missiles to take out a suspect. Consider those who are wounded in such an operation, their suffering must be orders of magnitude worse than waterboarding. But that's still considered ok.

At least it's a home-grown fetish, in a western tradition. For India to swallow this whole package without question, to pretend that there is a way to kill / defeat our enemies with our "head held high", is a stretch. One has to ask, what does "Indian morality" say about the question.

Of course this is complicated by the difficulty of answering what is Indian. The British period ? The Mughal period ? All the way back to Kautilya, who probably would have no hesitation about encouraging dissension among his enemies ?

So the whole thing sounds like armchair liberal handwringing. FWIW, India is sheltering the Dalai Lama and his contingent, which is like keeping the Tibetan insurgency alive. India has also interfered comprehensively in Sri Lanka. So it looks like the Indian political class has already decided that such tactics are ok.
SreekanthBoston
Boston, United States
5/D-91
Feb 21, 2010
08:03 PM
Hope our Ministers don't read Duggal's and Sangvi's anylisies.They will swoon if told to divert attention from money making.

Nation needs strong willed and men of high integrity to start covert actions. Softy Darbaries like our Ministers can't do .

We had very powerfull RAW operations going on when Inder Kumar Gujral became PM .Under Gujral Doctrine he stopped those operations and consequently all the Paki contacts co-oppting with RAW were exposed and mercilessly liquidated.

Who will trust us again ? Aren't already Balochies say India has betrayed them four times ? And we did it again Fifth time at Shermal Shiekh .
ram prasn haryanvi
Ambala Cantt, India
6/D-106
Feb 21, 2010
11:35 PM
SreekanthBoston
Boston, United States.

Morality is not a seasonal fruit that is available in a fixed time frame or a migratory bird which visits India and its political setup on any predetermined date. If morality was to be the bench mark of Indian government then it has failed miserably on this score. Selective use of this idiom in case of tackling terror will cause more destruction.
Anil Kohli
Mumbai, India
7/D-4
Feb 22, 2010
12:56 AM
I have advocated the same thing many times before. If we are sure of the identity and guilt of someone who has harmed us and if the Government of Pakistan would not help in their apprehension, we must resort to covert operations to eradicate them.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
8/D-5
Feb 22, 2010
12:57 AM
>> Even when the biggest killing of Hindus by Muslims took place in 1947,except in Punjab and pockets in Bengal and Bihar,there was no retaliatory killings right across the country,including Pune and Nagpur.

I don't think Vir Sanghvi meant quite that!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
9/D-7
Feb 22, 2010
01:14 AM
Anil, I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. Quite simply, I'm saying we don't need to care so much about what NY Times and Guardian might think :-) .

For example, the US did encourage asymmetric warfare / insurgency in Afghanistan against the former Soviet Union. Turning back the clock even more, France aided the colonial rebels against Britain and helped create the US.

So in and of itself, assisting Baluchi freedom fighters is not wrong; it depends on which side you look at. The annoying saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter", which is usually used against liberal democracies when justifying the actions of various terrorists, can be turned the other way also, and can apply to any potential Indian actions.
SreekanthBoston
Boston, United States
10/D-24
Feb 22, 2010
05:21 AM
The problem with Sundeep's blog is how he twisted the articles of B. Raman. He starts with a summary of what Mr. Raman says. Mr. Raman wants us to attack the threats to Indian security such as ISI and Pakistani terrorists. He never advocated the bombings of Pakistani civilians. Sundeep somehow invents a lie about Mr. Raman advocating attacks on Pakistani civilians and decides how immoral it is.

Every nation has to protect its own from evil. The evil is Pakistani ISI, terror groups and military. They are all one and the same. Even the 11/26 trial is a farce. They are not even prosecuting the real guys. That Pakistani state is a Islamic terrorist state. If we don't take measures to hurt their leaders who are planning and executing these acts, they will not stop the killing spree. Israel survived only because they eliminate their serious threats.
VIvek
Hyderabad, India
11/D-31
Feb 22, 2010
07:37 AM
"but we still want to fight it with our heads held high"

SUNDEEP, what is there to "hold high" when PAKIS JEHADIS sneak into India, dressed up as ordinary people and shoot up INDIANS on the streets of MUMBAI. In Kashmir, the same JEHADIS, pushed in by PAKI ARMY kill Indian soldiers hiding behind ordinary KASHMIRI DRESS or even BURQUA. Your insistence on holding the "head up" would have been markedly different had you lost a "loved one" in Mumbai/Pune attack or had a soldier in your family fighting the JEHADIS.

USA kept advising India on the need for restraint all the while when India was being continuously hit by JEHADI TERRORIST but the day USA was attacked on 9/11 they came down like a "Ton of BRICKS" knocking out anyone they suspected of involvement- Iraq, AFPAK etc. USA has no qualms about treating all citizens of 14 countries including Pakistan as terror suspect- while India runs buses and trains to Pakistan. Even after 26/11 India is being "Shermal ShiekhED" and arm twisted into "peace talk" with Pakistan. It is a shame that India has to bend backwards after being kicked by PAKIS so frequently. ISRAELI tactics alone will work against Pakistan and The JEHADIS will do it for India in Pakistan- all India need to do is pay the Jehadi Leaders.
Akil
Bangalore, India
12/D-52
Feb 22, 2010
11:50 AM
SreekanthBoston
Boston, United States

That is exactly what I am also saying we are on the same page for this one. I will try and post the entire comment that I wrote in response to Vir Sanghvi article in Hindustan Times I hope this forum allows lengthy comments to appear.
Anil Kohli
Mumbai, India
13/D-53
Feb 22, 2010
11:52 AM
Vir Sanghvi, Congratulation, you indeed have broken the mould, while majority from your profession are still advocating jawing as a viable means to overcoming a serious issue of terrorism.

The four scenarios put forward by you are absolutely valid and do not need any extra grey cells in any of us to accept these. Yes the willingness of Pakistan is an established fact known to one and all in this country.

I wish during the course of your conversation with the Prime Minister you would have reminded him that Morality is not a seasonal fruit that is available in a fixed time frame or a migratory bird which visits India and its political setup on any predetermined date. If morality was to be the bench mark of Indian government then it has failed miserably on this score. Selective use of this idiom in case of tackling terror will cause more destruction.

While a lot of Indians are going to focus on what is written by you and shall ignore the implicit message that is contained in this article. Open armed conflict with Pakistan on the issue of terror is a given it is only a matter of time and the events leading to it.

26/11 is a paradigm shift in how India is going to be challenged by the terrorists with active support from our neighbour, let us not delude ourselves any more. The level and intensity in terms of targets, causalities and prominence of the complex(s) and individuals is what will determine our response to such an event.

India must reflect in all seriousness, do we want an endless number of Indians as victims of terror, do we want to be a nation with a large number of War Widows and Orphans, or sacrifice a small number in covert actions. We are going to lose a number of Indians in this effort of containing terrorism in this country.

Is it not a better option to have trained men and women engage terrorist outside the geographical boundaries of India, rather than on our own soil. Interdiction is an acceptable option as against retribution of which we seem to be absolutely incapable due lack of political will.

India wants peace great! India does not war fantastic! India must act and create the environment for both of these desires to fructify, not by seeking assistance or merely basing it on hope! India must initiate positive action and now! Not learning from history is a sure recipe for disaster waiting to revisit us.

This is not war mongering, this is accepting and facing the challenges that our neighbour has been throwing at us for the last 3 decades or so. The time is upon us to counter this comprehensively and decisively.
Anil Kohli
Mumbai, India
14/D-67
Feb 22, 2010
02:09 PM
India should do the following:
1. have hit squads like Mossad and eliminate all known Terrorists.
2. Encourage baluchis, Sindhis and others to separate from Pakistan.
3. Encourage Tibetans and uzhurs and others to separate from China as don't be fooled, china is fully involved along with Pakis in all this.
4. have an export control act like US. Any Company country looking for access to indian market will have to forego the same with pakistan. Not many markets are left guys. India is one of the biggest. Make it unattractive for anybody to help Pakis inclding USofA.
Let's understand very well, USofA needs us more than we need them.!
vibhaas
Doha, qatar
15/D-122
Feb 22, 2010
10:50 PM
Just a couple of quick points:

1. I have no intention of distorting Mr B. Raman's words. They speak for themselves and I have no disagreement with the way he chooses to word his analysis on covert operations. I merely linked to his article because it was carried on this site and quoted from Mr Sanghvi's because it appeared elsewhere.

2. By very definition, covert operation options lose their purpose if discussed in a public forum. We should hope that responsible people entrusted with such matters take informed decisions.

The point which needs to be highlighted in all this is that such a discussion should not take our attention away from the basics that need to be urgently tackled in preventing future terror attacks.

Needless to say, it always helps if talking softly is backed up by carrying a big stick. And of course, we need to rebuild our capabilities on all areas, including covert capabilities that we downgraded and dismantled during the Gujral premiership.
Sundeep Dougal
New Delhi, India
16/D-14
Feb 23, 2010
02:34 AM
Sundeep

Thanks for your clarifications.

I have problem with a lot of arguments that are posted in the blog.

>> But it's a dirty war and this seems like an easy, sexy idea. Most people I know might wince, hold their noses, but ultimately go along with something like the above, with due caveats about how it could be a slippery slope and how obviously there needs to be a debate about who authorises such "hits" and what the "due process" in such a case would be.

Should you judge every one who accepts such strategy? Would you advocate the same approach if your loved ones perish in one of those attacks? Should we worry about "Due process" and who authroizes such "hits" in order to liquidate monsters whose 24x7 work is to plot how to bomb, kill Indians and wage a jihad. Should we get all influenced by eunuchs in the media who think Indian lives are expendable but get orgasms when they think about Paki terrorists. These media scums go to the extent of even calling these murderers as "militants" in order not to offend the sensibilities of murderers across the border. They love the terrorists and their perpetrators to death. You should use your own judgment. They are all sold to the international and anti-national interests.

>> Yes, it is a dirty war and the "enemy" does not offer us similar courtesies, but we still want to fight it with our heads held high, even if it means keeping our fists tightly clenced and our teeth gritted. There are somethings that we just will not do. Else, will there be a difference between Pakistan which has used terror as state policy (albeit undeclared, but the war of a thousand cuts has been documented enough) and India which can still call itself a civilised nation?

This is a laughable bravado at the best. You don't choose to fight a moral version of war with an enemy whose 24x7 work is to plot, kill, bomb and mutilate you. You fight the war to remove the threat not to sit and write moral stories.
VIvek
Hyderabad, India
17/D-19
Feb 23, 2010
02:50 AM
Vivek, I am sure Sundeep will have his own response, but you seem to be very hasty in jumping to conclusions and are missing the point he makes very well. One, by due process, and who will authorise the hits, to me he is suggesting that someone responsible should be doing so and not anyone. If your loved ones perished, would you want to kill anyone in Pakistan or those who killed them? At least only those who kill innocents, I would hope.

And what are you proposing? That because Pakistan-based terrorists kill innocent Indians, we should also train terrorists who might end up killing innocents. That is the clear message if you read it without getting emotionally upset about it.

I do hope that you do not ever lose a loved one, because your responses seem very irrationally angry.
Yashodhara
New York, United States
18/D-20
Feb 23, 2010
02:57 AM
Reading the emotional responses here, one would imagine that Indian intelligence agencies are absolutely innocent. This debate is a distraction and an unpleasant and unseemly one at that, just the kind that provides terrorists and their apologists to bring in a moral equivalence with Pakistan. If we must publicly discuss this, effort should be made to not behave in a manner that allows others to point out how we are no different and given the chance we will not hesitate to kill innocents.
Yashodhara
New York, United States
19/D-22
Feb 23, 2010
03:05 AM
Sundeep, Yashodhara,

Please ignore this Vivek. He seems to have basic parsing issues. A look at his two messages is enough to indicate that.

You are right. It is a slippery slope. Any one can see that. It's the same reason we do not want police to have a carte-blanche to shoot any suspect.

I am not sure how Vivek would feel if cops killed one of his loved ones and claimed he or she was a terrorist, visiting Pakistan or in India.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
20/D-27
Feb 23, 2010
03:14 AM
Ajit, that is a striking example, even if a bit crude and brings into sharp focus why due process is important as much in covert operations as in anything else.

I actually agree with the more fundamental point that we need to focus on more important issues that get sidetracked because of this glamorous and crowd-pleasing one.
Yashodhara
New York, United States
21/D-28
Feb 23, 2010
03:20 AM
I am quite surprised to find myself agreeing with "Anwaar":

If we are sure of the identity and guilt of someone who has harmed us and if the Government of Pakistan would not help in their apprehension, we must resort to covert operations to eradicate them.

But I am not sure how he would feel if someone were to argue that the Batla house dead youth were actually those against whom police had full information and they decided to eradicate them. Would he believe the police claim and take it at face value?
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
22/D-39
Feb 23, 2010
03:53 AM
>> if someone were to argue that the Batla house dead youth were actually those against whom police had full information and they decided to eradicate them.

A covert Indian operation on Pakistani territory has only one option; eliminate the terrosrist and beat a hasty retreat. An Indian Police raid in Delhi has to capture the terrorist, and not shoot him unless a genuine encounter takes place.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
23/D-41
Feb 23, 2010
03:56 AM
And who will determine who is the terrorist? Anwaar?
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
24/D-42
Feb 23, 2010
03:59 AM
I take it we all will agree that Hafiz Sayeed is a terrorist who should be killed. Who else? Is it ok if in the process of killing him, we end up killing one innocent person? Two? Three? Four? Forty? What if they happened to be your loved ones visiting Pakistan?
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
25/D-43
Feb 23, 2010
04:01 AM
Anwaar's "logic" is wonderful.

>>A covert Indian operation on Pakistani territory has only one option; eliminate the terrosrist and beat a hasty retreat.

He really thinks that an Indian covert team will be sent to kill the terrorists? I presume they would have Mr India capabilities of being invisible? They will travel how? PIA? Chartered flight?
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
26/D-44
Feb 23, 2010
04:10 AM
Covert capabilities of the kind we are discussing here mean having "assets" in Pakistan like Pakistan does in India.

Having reliable "assets" takes a lot of doing. My understanding after reading Mr Raman and others on this and other sites is that IKGujral is responsible for dismantling our covert capabilities.

Yes, we need to develop such capabilities and not, as was pointed out earlier, indulge in loose public talk.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
27/D-69
Feb 23, 2010
07:52 AM
Wow! Look at the terrorist sympathizers coming out of woodwork beating their chests in support of Paki terrorists. Their hearts are bleeding.

This loser Ajit Tendulkar somehow links advocating elimination of threats to Indian security to advocating encounters of Indians. Loser! Where did you pick that up from? Read first before running your mouth off... With any luck to India, those terrorists will get to people like you first. Your worry about visitors to Paki garbage land is very heart rendering. Don't go there. I haven't heard one Islamic terrorist who has been caught till now that hasn't visited that garbage land.

Yashodhara -

The articles by Mr. Raman or I never advocated killing Pakistani civilians. You have to build and attack threats to Indian security. You should read what I wrote before coming to hasty conclusions. You even went to the extent of blaming our intelligence agencies to show your evenness towards terrorists. With citizen like you, Mother India's future is bleak.

You are safely sitting in New York and advocating not to have unpleasant conversations that offend Paki terrorist state rulers and their terrorists. If you have learned one thing about the Americans, it can George Bush or Obama; Liberal talk is only for judging others but when it comes to American security, they don't care about what people around the globe or terrorists in Paki garbage land think. They use drones or planes to attack terrorists even if the margin of error is high. That does not mean we have to follow their lead. We just have to think about our security and eliminate threats to us in whatever means possible. Think about your country's security, not what those scums in terroristan think about you. NEWS FLASH! They hate you and your neighborhood. If they get a chance, they will you it up in a sec.
VIvek
Hyderabad, India
28/D-71
Feb 23, 2010
08:07 AM
This loser Ajil whose heart is bleeding for terrorists scums poses a big question. Who decides who is a terrorist? There is some thing called "evidence" which all these terrorists are leaving in their acts. The word "evidence" may sound bitter to terrorist apologist like you.

http://www.outlookin.../article.aspx?214304

Accompanied by home secretary Kamal Pande, Intelligence Bureau (IB) chief K.B. Singh and other senior officials, Advani has gone about the whole thing in a systematic fashion, presenting to US attorney general John Ashcroft a list of 42 terrorists—both Indian and foreign—who are operating out of Pakistan. Later, he produced a shortened list of 20 fugitives with Interpol Red Corner notices for the benefit of the US secretary of state, Colin Powell. Officials sources say the list has been prepared by the IB with inputs from raw and the CBI, which deals with the Interpol.

Here's some of the evidence presented by the home minister:

* Passenger manifest listing names of the Memons—all accused in the Bombay blasts—travelling aboard a Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) flight on March 17, 1993, from Dubai to Karachi.

* Detailed telephonic intercepts of key Parliament attack accused Abdul Ahmed Geelani (a Zakir Hussain College lecturer) talking to his mentors in Pakistan.

* Tapes of conversation between main Kandahar case accused Masood Azhar and his brother Abdul Raof and brother-in-law Yusuf Azhar.

* Intercepts of talks that Kandahar hijack accused Abdul Latif and Dilip Bhujel had with their handlers in Pakistan in January 2001 from a PCO in Parel, Mumbai, discussing details of the hijacking.

* Transcripts of telephonic conversations that Abdul Raof had with Abdul Latif, hours after the hijacking, directing him to inform the BBC.

* Addresses and locations of key terrorists and their training camps. Names and addresses of their handlers in Pakistan including retired army officers.

* Transcripts of conversations in Punjabi and Pashto that took place between Kashmir-based militants and their handlers in Pakistan and PoK.

* A secretly filmed video of Mohammed Sharif Khan, a Pakistani High Commission official in Delhi, showing him receiving documents from Ajay Kumar, a Parliament official, days after the December 13 attack.
VIvek
Hyderabad, India
29/D-111
Feb 23, 2010
01:08 PM
Vivek, you clearly have a problem of comprehension. When I say who will decide, I am merely saying that such things need to be thought through, for pretty much the same reasons that the police is not given a carte blanche, and a senior officer is required to order firing. Likewise, a due-process means someone responsible taking a call.

You just jumped in without understanding a word of what was written and started abusing and accusing others of being terrorist sympathisers.

I have always agreed with B. Raman analysis and let's not forget where it is published: on this site, by its editor, whom you are accusing of being a terrorist sympathiser!
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
30/D-115
Feb 23, 2010
01:17 PM
The day Vivek stops frothing at the mouth and is able to persuasively argue his point of view, he may find it not very difficult to win people over to his point of view. Till then, alas, we will all live under the shadow of the Pakistani terrorist guns and keep getting accused of being sympathisers only because we caution against creating terrorists of our own because of various attendant risks.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
31/D-149
Feb 23, 2010
07:04 PM
Ajit

I can heap a lot of abuses like you. But I don't want to go down to your level. Go ahead and argue in your abusing and insulting style while I will do in my own style.

Whether I argue or not, the terrorists in Paki garbage land have one and only one aim. They want to destroy India. That is what they started in 1947. It is 2009. They have the same aim. They evolved more deadly by welcoming every low-life scum from every Islamic society which even those societies are not ready to accept. They want to kill Hindus. They want to kill Jews. They want to kill Americans. They want to kill Europeans. They want Afghans as their slaves. That is what they mean when they say strategic depth.

I advise all those mouthing of "Be nice. Be nice to terrorists. They get offended. It is all our fault. We have morals" to read the book "Black swan" and what the author says about his native country Lebanon.

Also little reference:

http://en.wikipedia....dia.org/wiki/Lebanon
http://en.wikipedia....i/Lebanese_Civil_War

This is the story of a country and its native people destroyed by Palestinian refugees with the help of all neighboring Arab countries and terrorists and this this the wet dream of Paki garbage minds. You kill enemies who enter your land to commit terror. No questions asked. You wait and take out scums like Hafeez, Dawood whenever you get a chance. The Paki military chiefs and ISI officers have to fear the consequences. When they don't fear for their own safety, they don't stop. They are not afraid of moral lectures.
VIvek
Hyderabad, India
32/D-162
Feb 23, 2010
07:54 PM
I hate to have to say it so early in the morning, but Vivek you clearly are smoking something seriously good, man! All the best, enjoy your wet dreams!
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
33/D-166
Feb 23, 2010
08:28 PM
Vivek is right on this one. A lot of Indians are downplaying the seriousness of the Pak-Islamist threat to India, which is relentless, as in 24/7/365. 400 Islamic terror cells have already been discovered in India and busted. Can you imagine the damage they would have done, if they were not arrested?
Mumbai(Nov/2008) should really have been the last straw, but now Pune has occurred. How many more attacks should India take? 100?
And please, don't even bring up the nonsense of 'injustice' stemming from Ayodhya and Gujarat. That's a crock. These terrorists will find any excuse to kill Indians- Kashmir, Gujarat, Ayodhya, the mere fact of India having a Hindu majority is an 'injustice'.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
34/D-182
Feb 23, 2010
11:43 PM
As always, the loser Ajit is back at calling names. If you can't argue rationally and can't stand his ground and not sure what they want, call others names.

First you start off your responses by calling me names comes up with a clueless logic.

Clueless in Seattle - You are right. It is a slippery slope. Any one can see that. It's the same reason we do not want police to have a carte-blanche to shoot any suspect."

How does covert operation against India's enemy terrorists translate into supporting/advocating police encounters? No one knows. He accuses me of having parsing issues.

You should do meditation man! The neurons in your brain seems to have missing links.

Exhibit 2 of Clueless in Seattle: If we are sure of the identity and guilt of someone who has harmed us and if the Government of Pakistan would not help in their apprehension, we must resort to covert operations to eradicate them. But I am not sure how he would feel if someone were to argue that the Batla house dead youth were actually those against whom police had full information and they decided to eradicate them. Would he believe the police claim and take it at face value?

Some how you can't leave connecting eliminating a high valued Paki terrorist who is plotting to bomb a nuclear plant in India to "Batla" house incident. Is any of them your friends or did you help them to kill police or fellow Indians? What is your infatuation with them? There were a lot of witnesses to the firing between the inmates of the flat and police but conspiracy theorists like you lie through your teeth to keep on denying terror at doorstep as a convenient way to promote your propaganda.

http://www.thehindu....2008101053621100.htm

"In some sense, the allegations levelled over the encounter tell us more about the critics than the event itself. In part, the allegations have been driven by poor reporting and confusion — the product, more often than not, by journalists who have not followed the Indian Mujahideen story. More important, though, the controversy was driven by the Muslim religious right-wing whose myth-making, as politician Arif Mohammad Khan recently pointed out, has passed largely unchallenged."

This is from a rabid left-wing newspaper.
VIvek
Hyderabad, India
35/D-5
Feb 24, 2010
12:22 AM
Birdbrain Vivek without any Vivek:

>>How does covert operation against
>>India's enemy terrorists translate
>>into supporting/advocating police
>>encounters? No one knows. He accuses
>>me of having parsing issues.

Foolish man, it is not being suggested that it would translate into whatever nonsense you think. It is an analogy. To. Drive. The. Point. Of. Due. Process. Home.

Capice?

I. Think. Not.

Go. Learn. How. To. Read. And. Comprehend. And. After. That. To. Write.

>>On batla House

It. Was. An. Analogy. For. Anwaar.

For. Your. Information. I. Have. No. Quarrel. With. Batla. House. Incident.

I guess it would take me ages to make Vivek understand anything. And that is my worry. That such incoherent and mentally challenged hotheads might be the ones making decisions to order hits. I would rather trust someone like B. Raman who has a far more nuanced understanding of all this.

Mr Moderator: please restrain this oaf from making it personal for then I will have to answer his crudities with some choice ones too.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
37/D-161
Feb 24, 2010
11:28 PM
Peanut brain Ajit...

Your brain has to be put on steroids to make it understand the facts. Your analogy is clueless as you are. If you strongly believe that Batla incident is staged, then you point that out and say why you don't advocate covert option. When you believe the police version, you don't use it to argue against it.

Damn Fool! Understand one thing... The criminals, murderers, terrorists and their supporters always peddle conspiracy theories to hide their crime, continue their crime and they use liberal values of the society in order to destroy the society and build a religious society. If you worry about those scums in Paki garbage land, Indians will die in droves.

If you are gutless to argue, don't run to moderators. Stand up and learn to argue intelligently which may be a Himalayan task you.
VIvek
Hyderabad, India
38/D-7
Feb 25, 2010
02:15 AM
Clearly, this Vivek is incapable of understanding, but in case his repeated confusing and incoherent nonsense has caused any confusion for others, let me restate:

1. I believe, as Sundeep Dougal also argues, that the covert option should not be discussed publicly

2. Like the point raised by Sundeep, I too believe that we should have the covert capability but should observe due process in ordering hits and should do so with great degree of circumspection and a great level of responsibility

4. For those getting orgasmic and trigger-happy and frothing at the mouth with false bravado and feeling like Einsteins for having come up with this easy option, like the author, I also agree that we should not lose focus from our immediate and urgent tasks of shoring up internal security.

5. And lastly, the Batla house incident was a reminder for those like Anwaar about how they needed to be consistent: if they are willing to trust the security agencies "taking out" terrorists in Pakistan, trust them here too. Or demand a level of rigour and responsibility and due process so the government version can be taken seriously. Basically, have credibility.

But some retarded individuals posting again and again will never comprehend a nuanced argument if it got up and bit them. TO them I say, please go covertly or overtly to Pakistan and get blown.

Now have a nice day.

Love and kisses
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
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