While I am in agreement with most of the questions you raise, it is also important to factor the following in the many strands of the reality of Jammu and Kashmir:

There's little doubt that the large-scale street violence in Kashmir — fuelled by urban deprivation, human rights abuses and, above all, the often-indiscriminate use of lethal force against protesters — have a reach and legitimacy that no organisation can account for. But the Zargar case shows that hard work went into building the networks that gave the protests direction and focus.

Fugitive Islamist leader Masrat Alam Bhat, his colleague Asiya Andrabi and their jailed mentor Ashiq Husain Faktoo are at the heart of the New Islamist movement that runs these networks.

http://www.thehindu....87.ece?homepage=true

In sopore,

Long before these killings, though, the town saw the silencing of those who might have helped prevent them. In May, terrorists assassinated Ghulam Nabi Khan, president of Sopore's powerful Traders' Federation, who had initiated a dialogue with the government to contain street violence. Local video operator Ashiq Husain was killed in April for broadcasts Islamists found offensive.

In June, after the Traders' Federation's acting head, Mohammad Ismail Khuroo, met with bureaucrats to begin a dialogue on the violence, local Islamists attempted to set his home on fire. Khuroo, along with his associates Javed Bhat and Hashmatullah Hashim, resigned his position.

http://www.thehindu....es/article577287.ece

See video

http://www.thehindu....al/article576711.ece

Ajit Tendulkar,

What has been stated are "highlighting" known facts.

1-- Mr Lincon taking the difficult dicision of "opting for a CIVIL WAR" than allowing the Southern States of USA to cesed is what made USA, what it is today. Remember, the demand for cessation had majority support amongst the inhabitants of Southern States.

2-- The protest is restricted to "JUST" five Districts of J&K -BARAMULA, KUPWARA, SRINAGAR, PULWAMA and ANATNAG which constitute less than 20% area and 30% of population of J&K. Even the SHIA dominated BUDGAM Dist in Kashmir Valley is not involved the violent protest.

3-- While India has prevented people from other part of India from settling in KASHMIR by imposing Article 370, Pakistan has no such rule in POK. PUNJABI MUSLIMS have settled in large numbers in POK taking full control of POK in the last 63 years and hence how can any REFERENDUM be possible in J&K now- when nobody can identify who are the KASHMIRIS in POK.

So the only option for KASHMIRIS unhappy in India is to migrate to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir so that they can "live happily ever after".

Well they are the Rulers .Whom else can we question ? Forget food front there is massive rottenness on many fronts.Should we not ask the Govt to act and deliver ? Or just it is UPA Govt so exempt it of every accountability .

Not necessary if we question our Govt then we are Sanghies.The indefatigable supporter of the Congress has asked some questions :

"Snap out of denial : Partap Bhanu Mehta

The sense of crisis brewing across the nation now requires us to ask some graceless questions about political responsibility in the current government. In Kashmir, the government has irretrievably squandered an opportunity for real political progress; instead of hope, the stench of violence, intimidation and resentment again dominates the air. In the Northeast, the era of damaging blockades and political deadlocks is back.--

But it points to a deep problem the Congress has: it has no genuine politicians left. Sonia Gandhi has authority. But it has to be said that this is an authority studiously cultivated by distance and by avoiding issues that truly matter; its sole concern seems to be that no shadow is cast on her power. But this is not political capital that is ever used for resolving tricky national issues.--

The Centre does not carry any credibility, because there it has no genuine interlocutors. There is no other leader who can carry the imprimatur that they are acting on behalf of the nation, who can provide a healing touch-- "

http://www.indianexp...t-of-denial/656342/0

The Govt in UPA II phase has simply stopped working and discharging its obligations.

All the people in valley who are making sky fall are Mohammedans. It's simply all about Muslim exclusiveness and separatism.

"India has to seriously think of getting its armed forces to behave more seriously - they currently behave like a bunch of high testoterone teenagers"

It is other way around. When violent mob of thousands deliberately attacking, lynching, and burning, forces are left with few options. Moreover there are extremists mingled in crowds to create more chaos and confusion as PC said in Parliament. TV pictures of protests are clear proof that protesters intentionally bringing children to create more causality. It's up to people of valley to make sure a protest goes on peacefully.

Strange - we seem to have second thoughts on using our armed forces against Maoists/Naxals - but use them freely in Kashmir. We keey saying it is an integral part of India ... and we dont hesitate to kill youngsters in Kashmir?

There has to be a better way of treating our own citizens - even if they dont seem to like the state too much.

I'm not in favour of self determination for Kashmir for 2 reasons: 1. The state had legally ceded to India in 1947 and 2. Freeing Kashmir will mean playing into Paki hands. they will usurp the territory, install some dummy terrorist as prime minister and use the land to gain "strategic depth" as they do in Afghanistan. And basically spread terrorism into India. Their ultimate objective is to destroy India.

The world has seen what Pakistan has done in Afghanistan in the name of strategic depth. Kashmir on its own does not have any strength to face Pakistan. If Kashmir is freed, Pakistan will usurp it and will cut off India from the upper reaches of the Himalayas. Then it becomes easier for them to spread more terror into India. Thats their only objective.

India has to seriously think of getting its armed forces to behave more seriously - they currently behave like a bunch of high testoterone teenagers.

We also need a better way of securing our borders in difficult terrain to prevent infiltration.

>>>>So the protests all have to be totally peaceful with no stoning, no burning of police stations, hospitals, railway stations etc. Because they are only for you and other inhabitants of the state.

And do not forget, no terrorists or interference from Pakistan. The Pakistani government should government should only talk to India and dismantle the terrorists’ infrastructure in their country. One of the reasons for heavy military presence in Indian controlled Kashmir is the terrorists who cross over from Pakistan. If that is stopped the military will go back to barracks and confine themselves to actually guarding the border and their number in Kashmir too could be reduced by a substantial number

>>> A.K Ghai Aug 04, 2010 03:06 PM

For once I actually agree with you 100 percent...

"I have a feeling that this forum is being used for propaganda by pakistanis "

Narendra

We will respect them if they post under real names.Then perhaps discussions will be more fruitful.

I have a feeling that this forum is being used for propaganda by pakistanis.

First we had a gentleman called metal head, then we had milan shekure and latest is rashid maqbool. In between we have fake appeals by Upendra baxi and PUCL.

Matter written here must be coming up in any search. Any other opinion?

It is the foolishness and selfishness of the Nehru-Gandhi family which is at the root of all Kashmir problems.This time,an irresponsible and idiotic Rahul Gandhi insisted on his buddy Omar Abdulla being made the CM,inspite of his known limitations.Our nominated PM,Manmohan Singh bowed to this order with no qualms.No amount of pampering as suggested by people like Prathap Bhanu Mehta will solve the Kashmir problem.Thousnds of crores of rupees have been poured to please the Kashmiris depriving the poorest of poor Hindus of states like Orissa,Chattisgarh,Jharkand leading to these people to look to Maoists to help them.An iron hand treatment of Azadi elements,on the lines of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians will only bring normalcy to the state.

Every now and then some body comes up to repeat same logic, same demand. First it was one then it was milan shekure and now it is rasheed maqbool.

The logic is same which also we know very well
1. We are not indians
we prove kashmir is part of india since Rigved.
2. They will raise the point of India have most poor in the world.
We dont have to give reply to this point as nothing to do with dispute and India is now rich as compared to pakistan.
3. They will argue about genocide in Gujrat, Delhi and orissa and term India as hindu country.
This attempt is their alibi for spreading hatred on religious basis. They dont consider Indian muslims opposition to secceding kashmir.
4. Slowly the cat comes out of bag that the kashmir problem is due to instigation by pakistan using islam and money.

5. There is no provision of any independent state apart from india or pakistan post british India. No other people have been given choice of plebscite. Atleast no body asked us. So kashmirs demand for independence is unteneble.
6. No non muslim kashmiri supports kashmiri muslims in their demand.
7. Secceding kashmir will cause millions of death similar to break up of Yugoslavia and Russia.

So the arguements are repeated million of times. Every time some one new from kashmir muslim community will come and repeat same arguement. When it is proved kahsmir problem is in reality instigation using islam then that person will leave.

What is there to discuss.

"QUIT JK, QUIT JK, QUIT JK "

We will blare your sentiments to Pakistan to walk out of the other side of the LOC.

Dear Rasheed,
A discussion on self-determination will be long and will require a lot of patience.

Perhaps we should start by defining it properly.

We will need to seriously think about whether any georgraphical entity can ask for secession.

What about the right of those people in J&K who very much want to remain part of India? Should they not have the right to determine their fate too?

Their idea of self-determination may involve the right to choose their administrators, their state government. They may want such a government which will ensure that the army or the border security forces or the central forces will not be involved in policing residential areas and cities and will go back to their barracks. They may want only a state police to ensure routine law and order. They may want that the recruitment to such police force be done from amongst the state's own people itself. They may want more transparency in this recruitment and so forth.

I am sure most Indians will support such a demand.

This may take some time. Till then we should perhaps agree on what there is no dispute.

You of course have the full right to dissent and peaceful protest. On that you need full support so that the army/police or others do not humiliate you or anybody else when all you want to do is protest.

As for our freedom fighters. Well, they were also your freedom fighters. Mahatama Gandhi you will remember called off his protest after Chauri Chaura. So the protests all have to be totally peaceful with no stoning, no burning of police stations, hospitals, railway stations etc. Because they are only for you and other inhabitants of the state. Any damage to those is a damage to your property. The rest of India gets concerned because lot of their tax money is also used in making that property.

Dear Akil,

I have a request. Please, in the interests of a dialogue, do not at least be so aggressive. Rasheed has made a request and we should at least try and understand his grievance respectfully.

RAASHID MAQBOOL,

The whole world knows that Mr Lincon, the US President, opted for a CIVIL WAR than accept the demand of SOUTHERN US states to cesed from rest of USA. Similarly the KURDS in TURKEY, the old ISLAMIC CALIPHATE, have also not been granted REFERUNDUM/ INDEPENDENCE. J&K became part of India in 1947 like all the other 525 PRINCELY STATES which became part of India like Patiala, Mysore, Jaipur, Gwalior etc etc and it shall remain "part of India come what may".

The protest which you claim is the indication of demand for independence is restricted to "just FIVE DISTRICTS of Kashmir Valley"- BARAMULA, KUPWARA, SRINAGAR, PULWAMA and ANATNAG which constitute less than 20% area of J&K and 30% of population of J&K. Even the SHIA dominated BUDGAM Dist of KASHMIR Valley has not joined the protest, leave aside the other NINE Dist- KARGIL, LADAK, DODA, UDHAMPUR, JAMMU, KATHUA, RIASI, RAJOURI and PUNCH which together account for 70% population of J&K. So if KASHMIRIS in these FIVE "protesting Districts" are unhappy with India they are most welcome to walk across to PAKISTAN OCCUPIED KASHMIR.

I am a Kashmiri and I would like to hear from respectable citizens of my neighboring country India What do they know or think about something called right to self determination? and please suggest me any way of expressing dissent when this fundamental human right is being usurped upon using all the military might by a state.And also tell me that when you want to raise your voices peacefully against this act of usurpation you are given bullets, you are thrown into jail to languish there,you are toucherd to death and humiliated, what should be your response in this case. A sentiment which has a history of as much as 4,000 years is repeatedly humiliated. What should these people do then? How much tolerance should they show to all this.
Our fight is against a state, a mindset and cruel designs not against any people. I wish common people in India come forward for our support on humanitarian grounds. Because you were once fighting a war of liberation and your oppressor used all kinds of tactics against you so you can better understand what we have been experiencing and what we are going through.
And remember your freedom fighters were called terrorists by the establishment then, you are supposed to learn from the history not to forget it.
QUIT JK, QUIT JK, QUIT JK.

"Like the South Africans had their truth and reconciliation commission, can we not try and make a beginning in J&K and then take it to Gujarat 2002, Delhi 1984 and all the rest of the bloodied landmarks of our recent history? "

This is the easiest practical and workable Solution .If Bajpai shaib is not well then why not Dr Manmohan Singh goes to Kashmir and talk to the Kashmiries ? The only negative point is that Dr sahib on similar mission did assure to the widows of the Sikh victims of 1984 carnage did built high hopes .But finally could not prevail on his Party. Bajpai sahib had no such constraints for Kashmir.Though for Gujarat Bajpai too could not over rule Advani .

I whole heartedly support the idea of Reconciliation Commission on 1984,Gujarat and Kashmir.

Kashmir should be top on the agenda .

So who will talk ? I feel Manmohan sahib can but for that Madam Sonia will have to assure that she will stand by his PM's commitment.

Congress has to show some sagacity and maturity.First act in the line should be it should assuage the seriously hurt feelings of the opposition Parties who will surely support the National cause.

None should forget that the present trouble is ISI sponsored and financed too.It will not be easy to resolve the Kashmir trouble.

And precautions should also be taken NOT TO HAVE ANOTHER SANT LONGEWAL TYPE MISHAP WHICH LASHKAR WILL TRY .

If Congress feels the agitation will blow over then it is badly mistaken.If talks fail then War is sure to happen.Pakistan Arny is fully geared for that .But what about us .Hope deficiencies listed out by our C-in-C at the time of 26/11 have been removed.

Narendra,
Downward ebb or under control or whatever, THE QUESTIONS ARE DISTURBING.

We demand replies from Prime Minister and State Chief Minister

Kashmir protests are now on downward ebb. People need peace to earn money and run house hold. Just hang on for few more days.

First the government need to act in accordance to law and scrap special power to the armed forces. No more fake encounter and severe punishment to the rogue elements in the police and army.

Then if there is violent protest the azadi lovers should be dealt firmly.

Excellent questions.

India has to first accept that its dealing with a group thats inspired mostly by religiously motivated bigiotry and has nothing to do with that 4-letter word Azadi ( No its not a 5 letter , but a 4-letter word in the Kashmi context ).

A civilized, diverse, tolerant society cannot deal with religiously motivated hooliganism by soft means.